MTA Chair and CEO Janno Lieber appeared live on NY1’s Inside City Hall with Bobby Cuza to discuss the proposed 2025–2029 Capital Plan and other transportation-related issues.
A transcript of the interview appears below.
Bobby Cuza: Welcome back to Inside City Hall. As we mentioned before the break, the MTA board today voted unanimously to approve a $68 billion capital improvement plan. The plan looks to upgrade the aging transit system over the next five years, but $33 billion of the plan have yet to be accounted for. Congestion pricing was going to help fund the current capital plan, although its future is now uncertain. The plan now heads to Albany for approval, and here to talk more about today's vote is MTA Chair and CEO Janno Lieber. Welcome back to the program. Thank you for joining us.
MTA Chair and CEO Janno Lieber: Good to be with you, Bobby.
Cuza: I think one problem with the capital plan, in my experience, is that this stuff is not really sexy, right? When you talk about upgrading signal systems and fan plants and power substations, you know, people don't really get that. So how do you go about selling this plan to people?
Lieber: Well, first of all, what's sexy to New Yorkers is not being delayed. So, if the train is more than 40 years old, the probability it's going to break down goes way way up. We’ve got 2,000 subway cars that are more than 40 years old. We have to replace those or else you're going to get a lot more breakdowns. Same with signals, same with the structure. Every homeowner knows, you subject concrete and steel to water and salt and chemicals for 100 years, you're going to get problems. So, you’ve got to invest in this. New Yorkers understand they want a safe, reliable, quick system. And those signals, the signal replacements we've done on the number line are actually allowing us to run more service safely, and we're running it at two and a half minute headways, really fast service, so New Yorkers are going to get it. But there's also things in this program that really are improvements. Everybody loves ADA accessibility, not just for people in wheelchairs, but parents with strollers, people who are pulling a shopping cart because they're doing their shopping and going home on the train. Just people, as they get older, and stairs become more of an issue. That's a plus. Signals, as I said, more service, faster, more reliable, closer together.
Cuza: New train cars, right?
Lieber: New train cars. As I said, everybody loves these new train cars. I just got off an R211 coming up to your station, and people are loving it. There's a lot more room by the doors. All those digital ads, it's a much more dynamic advertising environment. We can share information with the customer much better. This is stuff that New Yorkers get. And finally, there is some expansion in this, and that's the so called IBX. That’s that we have an unused freight rail line that runs from the Brooklyn waterfront all the way across Brooklyn, all through these neighborhoods that don't have train service of any kind, up through Queens to Jackson Heights. Change people's lives if you can get direct from Brooklyn to Queens without wasting time going all the way through Manhattan. So, there's some stuff that really is transformational as well.
Cuza: So, to be clear, this $68 billion program, I mean, as we alluded to at the top, is not fully funded or even close to it. So, in a way, this is more of a wish list at this point, right?
Lieber: But the division of labor the law creates is the MTA Board has to adopt a capital program. We had to do it by October 1 under the law, and we're going to follow the law in every case. And then it goes to Albany to figure out how to allocate and reallocate funds. MTA Capital Programs are always made up of a mix of state, city, regional and federal money as well as MTA bonds. So that is what the decision makers in Albany are responsible for. The MTA doesn't really have its own revenue creation capacity other than raising fares, and that's frankly something that nobody wants to do. We've reestablished the principle of a very small, incremental fare increase, 2% a year. We want to stick with that. We don't want to use fares to burden the riders.
Cuza: Now, congestion pricing, obviously a hot button issue. That is now on pause. That money $15 billion or so was supposed to go to the current capital plan, right? What we're talking about now is the next five-year capital plan. So, you would have to fill a 15, $16 billion gap in the current plan, and as far as I've seen, there's no plan on the part of the Governor to unpause congestion pricing anytime soon. Right?
Lieber: I think, in fairness, give the Governor a chance to come back with her plan of what she wants to do about that. I mean, it's no secret that the MTA Board remains ready to implement congestion pricing if and when the Governor is willing to sign off on what is effectively a federal license to implement congestion pricing. So, the MTA Board stands ready, depends on the Governor's decision, and you know, in fairness, we’ve got to give her a chance to make good on a commitment that she said many, many times in very clear terms that she's not going to leave the MTA hanging for that $15 billion. So, in fairness, we're in the middle of election season. I know she is focused on many many different things. I want to give her a chance to make good on that commitment.
Cuza: So, you've got to fill that gap, the $16 billion, and then there are another tens of billions of dollars in this next five-year plan that are sort of unaccounted for. So, Albany has to come up with that money somehow. Right? What are your thoughts on that?
Lieber: That's not really our division of labor between us and Albany. We tend to be agnostic on, we have to be agnostic on, on how they do it. They can reallocate from other programs. They can do all kinds of things. But let me say this that, you know, people tend to focus on the fact that the MTA costs, it obviously costs a lot to run and maintain the system. The one thing that is much cheaper for in the State of New York compared to the rest of the states in the country is transportation. People don't have to own cars, or they don't have to own two cars or three cars because there's mass transit and a great mass transit system, so there is more government investment in transit in order to make that possible. And don't forget, the MTA is one of the very few things that makes New York affordable. The cost of traveling by transit, commuting by transit, is like 15% the cost of owning an automobile. It's a great deal, and it's the thing that makes New York possible with our density. So, we’ve got to keep it going.
Cuza: You know, there is some level of federal funding as well that flows from Washington, and you guys are counting on that to continue, right? I mean, talking about political season, is there a concern in terms of the presidential election? Right? Because we could see potentially another Trump presidency, and he has not always been kind to New York in terms of funding across the board, but particularly in terms of transit funding.
Lieber: Listen, there are huge issues at stake in this presidential election. You know, it would be a little unwise for me to make it all about transit. Obviously, there are risks to things that New Yorkers care about in the federal election this year. I will say, however, that historically even when there are party changes in Washington, federal transportation funding has not swung in huge directions, because there are lots of folks elsewhere in the country who rely on transportation funding. So, I don't think it's a disaster scenario. What we're doing is we're planning on roughly the same level of transportation funding that's been provided in recent years. And then we'll see what happens come November and come the new administration.
Cuza: Janno Lieber, we are going to have to leave it there. Thank you so much for coming in and joining us tonight.
Lieber: You bet.